POLL: Move Noslin further away?

[Jon_Deciple]

Ok heres the deal... look at this

Map Distances
Land : Distances
Llirrem: 0 - 4300
Dungeon: 1500 - 4600
Rothar: 4700 - 7000
Velgrad: 7000 - 11000
Noslin: 8000 - 12300

notice the dungeon max is about rotahr's minimum, and rothars max is velgrad's min...

But look at noslin... minimum monster distance is like 8k... thats only 1k more than velgrad...

Now i dont know about you but i explored pretty much every part of llirrem as a noob, fighting to get my lvl up. And i explored every part of rothar getting my lvl up. And i explored like one tenth of velgrasd before, HEY! I can fight in Noslin! and Vroom there i went...

Nowi know a lot of you want to fight in noslin so you will click NO straight off, but consider this... There are more noslin supers that i know of than velgrad supers. There are more Rothar supers that i know of than Velgrad supers... maybe this says somthing... people spend more time in rothar and noslin than velgrad, and not because they want to, but because how the game works...

If i dont have supers and start lvling... i will need to spend a lot of time in every land EXCEPT for velgrad because velgrad is soo close to noslin. i think this sould be changed. If we added some distance to noslin, it would make the lands "Flow" a lot better...People would start lvling in velgrad because they just cant make it in noslin yet, and hey ppl would talk to cecelia the shoeless... (you dont know who she is? FIND HER shes got a great conversation just waiting for you... oh and by the way tina whats with the shoeless thing? i know socks suck but im missing some inside joke here... and hey im the kind of person that likes to laugh along so do explain )

Anyways, the poll is there... post what you think...

Oh and when i say increase the min distance, i mean say you pick option 2, the min distance would go from 8000 to 10 000, and the max distance would go from about 12 000 to 14 000.

[kyoko]

"people spend more time in rothar and noslin than velgrad, and not because they want to, but because how the game works..."

That doesn't make sense. They're obviously in Noslin because they want to be there for the supers. If it were really because of the game, Velgrad would start it's distance with a number higher than Noslins, practically destroying Velgrad's purpose.

Example: Velgrad starts at 12000 but Noslin starts at 8000. Where are you going to train?

"If i dont have supers and start lvling... i will need to spend a lot of time in every land EXCEPT for velgrad because velgrad is soo close to noslin."

Again... huh? Wouldn't it make more sense to move into Velgrad because there's practically NO gap between monster stats if you transition from Rothar to Velgrad? Maybe I'm not understanding you here. But, I do agree that Velgrad has become pretty useless with the coming of Noslin. I think this problem will be solved with the coming of item effects. You know, Velgrad supers being weaker than Noslin supers, but having better effects?

Anyways, back to my point. You can clearly train in Velgrad from 7000 to 11000 instead of training in Noslin. It's because of supers that people train in Noslin. You'd only really have no choice as to where you train if you plan on fighting the baddies beyond 11000, which is what Noslin and only Noslin covers.

To sum it all up, let's just leave it alone for now. I think there's a better alternative.

[Jon_Deciple]

Ya it just makes sense that if you CAN fight in noslin you will....

But im sayin that the gap between noslin and velgrad should be larger because people can fight in noslin pretty much as soon as they can fight in velgrad...

What im sayin is that people should be made to fight their way through velgrad to work their way to noslin... Noslin should be EARNED and at the moment i dont think it is... the way the maps are structured it make sit too easy to bypass velgrad and go right on to noslin

And im not sayin that velgrad should be moved im sayin that noslin should be moved...

2 more things... firstly, those of you that voted for not changing the distance... would you still be able to fight in noslin if it were changed? i doubt it Secondly, if you vote, post why you voted... makes life more interesting



Ok reading kyoko's post again apparently i didnt make myself clear, and instead of posting again im gonna add more to this one... what i meant by the people spending time more in rothar than velgrad is that getting the ability to fight in rothar takes work. Getting the ability to fight in velgrad takes work. Getting the ability to fight in noslin.... takes little work. Solution... move noslin further away so it takes more work to get there... Hope that clears that up...

And you agree that velgrad has become pretty useless with the coming of noslin, so to make velgrad less useless i suggest moving noslin further away... making it harder to get to... requiring more time to lvl in places like velgrad and rothar... making velgrad more usefull.... maybe i am more clear this time...

and i am starting to talk in broken english so im gonna stop now... tired am i.

[JabberWockee]

I completely agree with Jon on this one. I pretty much found out that I could fight in Velgrad, then went to Noslin and found I could fight there, as well. I am going to move straight from Rothar to Noslin, once I feel comfortable enough to fight there full time.

The gap should definately be made bigger. That would also allow for higher level players to fight tougher monsters.

Honestly, I think that all the maps should fit snuggly with the previous one's max, as is the way with many other RPGs. If that were to happen, though, I say you should also make Noslin supers considerably better than Velgrads, instead of just Mods being different.

Llirrem 0-4300
Dungeon 1500-4600
Rothar 4700-7000
Velgrad 7100-11000
Noslin 11100-16000

That would be my ideal setup, and that is why I said make Noslin Supers stronger. Thats just my opinion, and I haven't been here long, but Velgrad really has no purpose, as Jon said. That setup would pretty much force people to fight in Velgrad for a good while indeed.

[Niclamus]

Again... huh? Wouldn't it make more sense to move into Velgrad because there's practically NO gap between monster stats if you transition from Rothar to Velgrad? Maybe I'm not understanding you here. But, I do agree that Velgrad has become pretty useless with the coming of Noslin. I think this problem will be solved with the coming of item effects. You know, Velgrad supers being weaker than Noslin supers, but having better effects?

Anyways, back to my point. You can clearly train in Velgrad from 7000 to 11000 instead of training in Noslin. It's because of supers that people train in Noslin. You'd only really have no choice as to where you train if you plan on fighting the baddies beyond 11000, which is what Noslin and only Noslin covers.

I think you read the suggestion wrong.  He wants to move NOSLIN further, not velgrad.

[kyoko]

I think you read my post wrong.

Wouldn't it make more sense to move into Velgrad because there's practically NO gap between monster stats if you transition from Rothar to Velgrad?

When I say move, I mean the move you make as you progress through maps via training. I said that in reference to his claim that people progress directly from Rothar to Noslin, skipping Velgrad. I Never said anything about moving Velgrad.

people spend more time in rothar and noslin than velgrad, and not because they want to, but because how the game works

Well, wouldn't forcing people to train to Velgrad because Noslin got toughercontradict that? That's why my alternative to this solution is that we leave the distances alone and mess with the items a little. Noslin supers aren't that much better than Velgrad supers anyway.

Also, moving Noslin to the end of Velgrad is insane. I'm pretty sure there will be a decline in Noslin super rares because not too many people can handle 40K+ monsters anyway. Jabberwockee's suggested distances would only cause an increase in Velgrad supers, and a decline in Noslin supers. Also, a map branching out to 16,000 is also insane. It's supposed to be hard getting anywhere near 800, let alone 1,000.

[_Ares_]

For the first time i agree with Jon on something (maybe not the first). But truthfully i think noslin should be moved up not b/c i dont like lower lvls training there but that theres not many velgrad supers. Sence ive started back in November there have only been 2 velgrad supers droped, my HoV and kydenn's PoV (could be wrong but thats all i now of). There has been just as many noslins dropped in 2 days. And i think that noslin should be extended aswell, because i was killing the highest mobs in noslin not healing in battle at lvl 700 and i cant amagine how much MB and players as high as him are tired of the 53k's. im lvl 882 now and ive been tired of them for a while. So yes i think there should be little changes to it.

[JackHammer]

can't really move noslin further away atm...its attached to rothar just like velgrad is, so it only makes sense that they would have nearly identical mob training areas.
To be literal, of course.

[kyoko]

And i think that noslin should be extended aswell, because i was killing the highest mobs in noslin not healing in battle at lvl 700 and i cant amagine how much MB and players as high as him are tired of the 53k's. im lvl 882 now and ive been tired of them for a while.

So, you're saying it should be easy to get to level 1,000+? Sorry, let me rephrase that. So you're saying, it should be even easier than it already is to get to level 1,000+? You've been killing the strongest monsters in the game ever since you were level 700 and you want it easier than that? LOL. How fast do you think people should be able to level when they're nearing the top of the list? I don't think it should be fast at all. I think you should have to work for that number-one spot.

I don't like the idea of people having no choice but to train on a specific map. That's why I think modifying item stats is a better solution. Modifying them so that there's an incentive for some people to train in Velgrad. For example:

Hammer of Velgrad poisons the monster and builds up 100 damage each attack
Hammer of Noslin has a 50% chance to stun the monster, cutting the damage it does next turn by 30%

Which is better? Each has it's ups, each has it's downs. Some people will go for the Velgrad, some will go for the Noslin. And both my idea, and Jon's ide a couldn't possibly both be implemented because his would leave players no other choice than to train in Velgrad until they're level so-and-so.

[Jon_Deciple]

kyoko? I have no idea what your saying... i dont know why it seems like you dont understand, jabberwokee seems to understand perfectly.

Im not saying people wouldnt have a choice.... I, being able to clobber noslins almost at the foot of the moutian in noslin, COULD fight in llirrem, but i dont because it doesnt make sense. I *COULD* fight in velgrad but why would i if i can fight noslins and get a chance at getting a super?

If we moved noslin further away people would need to take more time to train in other lands before they were READY to fight in noslin... as it stands now if you can fight in velgrad you can fight in noslin....and i think that should not be the case

And changing supers to have different effects? i dont think thats gonna happen any time soon, maybe post it in a new thread it seems a little off topic in here... i was hoping this could be a discussion on moving noslin further away, not adding effects like poison to supers...        Please stay on topic

[kyoko]

Ok, I'll try that again.

Moving Noslin farther is a bad idea because it would make the game dramatically easier than it already is.

Please tell me you understood that.

Now, because moving Noslin would make the game easier. I think there should be another way to get people to fight in Velgrad. (hence, my item effect suggestion, which, to my knowledge, is on the way anyway....)

Azmodon... please... where are you?

[Jon_Deciple]

Understood what u said, not what it meant... How would moving noslin further away make the game EASIER?!?

I see how if your one of the 14 ppl over lvl 800 it may make lvling slightly easier because now you have an extra few thousand distance to fight in...

BUT

It would make the game harder because the more time it takes people to fight in other lands, the less chance they will get a noslin super, and the less chance of finding a noslin super fewer noslins will be floating around. Fewer noslin supers means it will be harder to get one. It will also make it harder to get to lvl 800+...

I can see how you can say it would make the game easier... but i disagree with it... It may make lvling for SOME people easier for a little bit of time, but overall it would make the game harder for the rest of us... and think of it this way... Amaruak is gonna continue to get up in lvls, no matter if the mobs he fights are at 12000 or 16000 distance...

Overall saying that it would make the game easier is bunk. I disagree.

[kyoko]

Dude, the difference between Velgrad and Noslin supers is so miniscule, we might as well just delete Velgrad and get it over with... Suppose you have a Hammer of Velgrad (3,600 added to your total strength), then you get a Hammer of Noslin. How much harder do you expect the game to be if you're using a Hammer of Velgrad instead of Noslin? There's only a 250 total str difference... 500 if you land a critical hit x2, and I'm pretty sure nobody'll be berserking out in Noslin to train. This is the strongest super item class we're talking about here. There's not even a need to mention other stats like HP because they're just as miniscule.

And yes, the game will be easier. On my mage, Ansatsu, I can kill the strongest Noslins. I think I have been ever since level 500-600 or so. So you're saying I should be able to level FASTER than I already am? How does that NOT make the game easier?

I think I've had enough experience, and have asked enough questions to be able to write an entire book about the mechanics of this game. I really think the game will be easier for those who train in Noslin.

[JabberWockee]

Sure, it will make the game easier up until a certain point, making levels like RUSSEL's more easily attainable, but I still think if there were a big boost in Noslin that there would be some people that wouldn't be able to fight there that fight on 52ks now... That would make Mt. Noslin a more exclusive area... Anyway...

If it were changed after the wipe, it would be better. If there was no wipe, I don't think it should be changed, because some people would just be able to go there, while others who were fighting 52ks have to work for it... After the wipe, EVERYONE will have to work for it. If there were a wipe and Noslin were moved, I say make Noslins higher number, maybe by 500-700 or so, just so there will be some benefit to training in the now tougher Noslin.

And thats my this about that topic which has been talked about on this about that forum and stuffness.

If you understand that, then you do too many drugs. O_O

[Jon_Deciple]

ok i see how it may make the game easier for a few people... but only for a little bit... because once you start hitting the hardest monsters again, your exp will boost a little, and you may suddenly gain a few more lvls... but it will get to the point where you are at already... where the strongest monsters only give you soo much experience and it talkes forever to lvl again...

So by moving noslin a few people get a few more lvls a little faster... it still makes velgrad worth somthing... and thats the point of moving noslin. Gah i cant seem to explain it... its like when u hit the end of noslin and your still getting the same experience as you did like 400 lvls ago, and your lvling speed is decreasing... once we move noslin it will be like hitting that point again... the speed of which you lvl will go up suddenly, and decrease over time as it did when you just hit noslin... maybe i should make a graph... nah too much work. anyways i hope you understand that cuz i kindof do and sortof dont... lol.

[JabberWockee]

Yeah, Jon, but there will still be people who break those limits and end up training on the new 65k mobs or whatever.

Move Noslin and Crank out about 7 new maps and it'll take people quite a while to get back to fighting the toughest mobs... But, that (as Shiris calls them) will just be a band-aid fix for people getting the same Exp as they did 400 levels prior.

[Jon_Deciple]

the reason for moving noslin is not to make harder mobs so it takes people longer to fight the hardest mobs, the idea is to make it so that velgrad has more of a use... as it stands velgrad could be removed and it wouldnt effect much of anything...

And as far as kyoko's saying that moving noslin would make the game easier, we spent like an hour on MSN and ya it might make lvling easier for a little bit... Like as it stands now it takes a certian amount of time to fight the "hardest" monsters... if the "hardest" monsters were made harder, then tehre would be a spike till you reached the *new* hardest monsters, and after that the time taken to lvl would increase again... the same process...

But since thats not my goal (as in my goal is not to make lvling easier) it doesnt matter that you think its a "band-aid fix" because thats not my goal... My goal is to make the distances for the maps "Flow".... 

Anyways, it seems to make sense to like 2/3 of you... the other third of you all either dont seem to get it, dont care, or not want to have to wait till u get to noslin lol.

Seriously, if you dont understand somthing im writing let me know... i can try to clear it up... after all that time with Kyoko i think she began to see what i was talking about... still was against the idea but understood that it wouldnt make anything much easier... anyways off i go to other things... later!

[MysticRat]

more maps!
more levels!
tougher monsters!
more experience!
new supers!

wihaaaa!!!

I've been training on these 53K's for a longgg time
and yeah, they get a a bit boring :\

[Jon_Deciple]

maybe if i had the prog that made the map files (or is it just paint? i doubt it) i could try making a new map... lol but really that post didnt say why you were for / against moving noslin...

ps - about time you post MB... lol jk

[MysticRat]

hey I just came back from holliday

I said why ...

<quote>
more levels!
tougher monsters!
more experience!
new supers!
</quote>