Use for spell skills beyond 100/120.

[Azmodon]

Hmm...This is probably going to sound similar to Jouser because a long time ago MightyBob and I complained until we got Chain Lightning and Apocolypse added to the spell lists...but anyway...Onward!

Ok. Beyond 100 for most spell skills, and 120 for lightning and earth, there's little use, while from what I hear, there are advancements in weapon skills around 200, and even 1000. (Just going on what I heard about criticals, not exactly sure.)

I have a couple suggestions for what could be done with higher spell skills...

The first is obvious. New spells. I'm not asking for another, more powerful Apocolypse. That'd just be silly. But, I found the level 34 fire and water skills surprisingly useful, even in Noslin. For those who don't know, those spells heal, damage, and set up a recurring damage(shield). More spells like that, more double turn spells, or simply stronger shield spells would be a decent addition to the game. The two new mage builds have really...little to depend on. INT mages have Apoc, the very last and most powerful earth skill, while dex mages have Sand Storm, the level 50 earth skill, about 25 skill levels down from Apoc, and shield mages have spells like Puration, which only do 210 a round and are a level 55 skill.

Or...possibly utility spells. A simple example of this is having a level 150-ish teleport spell for Lightning, or, for when mining becomes more useful with ores, a high level refinement spell in the fire tree. One idea I really hate to suggest, because I know it'll cause me nothing but grief...give people the option of staying with their corpse, and give holy a high level revive spell. (I say it'll cause me grief because I know I'll be the Noslin reviver...) Earth magic could be used to help with mining in some way, Water -> water travel, etc. etc.

And now for an idea that doesn't involve more spells...applications of higher skills to previously learned spells. I am most definitely not asking for spell criticals. A 2x critical even on my Apoc would be insane, just imagine level 700+...But, there are other things that can be done with high spell skills. Let's say, just for kicks, that I actually managed to get my earth up around 225. That's around three times the original spell skill required to cast Apoc. By then I'd be pretty good at casting it, and perhaps, might be entitled to reduced MP costs. Either as a passive skill, where once you hit a certain point your spells just cost less, or as an active skill, where you choose to cast a reduced cost Apoc, and it has a higher chance of fizzling (and would likely stop around 360, three times the spell skill to cast Apoc without it fizzling.). This would work for lower level skills too, dex mages could probably start casting reduced cost Sand Storms around 150 or so...Shield mages: reduced cost Purations around 165...etc.

Eh, all of this is probably moot considering the changes that are most likely being made to spells to prepare them for PvP/PK, but giving high level mages something to look forward to is still something that should be considered.

[Shiris]

But you raise a point that we have actually been considering when talking about how to make spells realistic for PK.  Basically, making spells that grow in damage or power at faster rates has proven dangerous in the open-ended, non-capped game (Apocalypse damage-wise, stun spells speed-wise).  But the idea of skill growth augmenting the spells that exist is very likely to see some form of implementation.  I like the decaying cost idea -- it fits in with the (although flawed in implementation) idea of increasing accuracy, although that, too, could get out of control without some forethought.  Either way, the skill system is likely going to change like this: currently, the skills were designed to give benefit up to a certain point that Dlorak or Brandon or whomever figured would never be reached.  Those points are getting reached.  Critical rates for fighters, dodge rates for DEX fighters, and spell accuracy for mages (technically some spells require over 120 for max accuracy, but they're really not that useful after all in late game) have all started showing signs of aging.  Instead, the skill system will probably be reworked to give decaying, but near-infinite benefit.

That is, assuming we find time to keep up the development.  >_>

[Jon_Deciple]

what if we kept the same spells but made it take longer to get them? lol

im sure the mages out there wont like the idea but that way it would take longer to get appocalypse (like say untill u got to noslin)

ooh that would make dueling more probable because 2 lvl 100's would have approxamately the same ability. the mage would have lower lvl spells and the fighter would have more damage... it would even out

lol just a suggestion. Its good being back (i was AWOL for a week... lots of new players its great, but thats a topic for the tavern)

[joundill]

i agree with the teleport and ore refining spells lol

[Shiris]

Making it take longer to learn spells is a band-aid fix.  Given enough time, all absolute barriers will be broken by someone with enough time and dedication.  If it's so good (or bad) that it's broken, making it tougher to get or more difficult to occur won't change anything.

[Aeric]

Well then the question to pose is this, Shiris. Is that any reason not to patch it while it can be patched? It seems to me that not doing anything at all would have no less a negative effect than leaving it the same...so why not?

[Shiris]

It's pointless to patch it if you're going to completely rewrite it anyway.  Takes time and another version release and stuff like that when time could be better spent revising it instead.

[Jon_Deciple]

From what i can tell the mage system was kinda tacked on as a sidenote. Which is why it doesnt work with PK and PvP stuff. A new version fixing everything would definately be better than the "Band-aid" fixes.

[joundill]

what about spel critical hits? lol lvl 250 = always crit 500= always double crit.....

[Azmodon]

Did you even read my first post? I said an absolute and resounding NO to spell criticals in any form.

Mages do enough damage anyway. Try to think of balancing issues next time Joundill.

[XTW]

If there were spell crits, MysticRat would be able to take almost any Noslins in one hit... All the time... >.> Would that be very unfair? Or what?

[joundill]

ok...no spell crits hmm what about a newer better puration??? it does the same damage but heals more???  maybe just every level you get in one spell it does a bit more after level 120 or so??? i dont know if this happens all the time so it might be a bad idea but i might as well suggest all the same

[Azmodon]

Shiris already said the system is being completely overhauled. I knew that when I made this suggestion, I was simply hoping for a quick, small change that might give me an incentive to continue leveling my mage or any of his spell skills in the form of a very small bandaid fix, considering that the way the Quest development has progressed, a complete overhaul like she's suggesting is probably at least a year ahead of us. Since Shiris has said this fix will not be done, this entire topic is moot, and a good candidate for being closed.

[New-I3oi]

This would be totally cool.. i made Arsia like a week ago played her for 3 days got her earth to level 100 and i pretty much quit on her... maybe if they added alot more skills