economy

[Bear05]

i like a lot of the changes that have been made, but i think that the overabundance of items, and the abilit to sell anything to the shop(great feature ) is going to lead to some serious inflation in just a couple months time. so i was thinking that since its just a week or so post wipe that it'd be a good time to ddress that before it gets out of hand.


*Tourneys
 -if the npcs dont work for free how come the guy that announces the start stop and score of a tourney doesnt get anything? i was thinking something like 100k to start a tourney. just have the gold on hand and the start command takes it away.
    - its not a whole lot of gold, but its still some and since nobody under level150 is starting one anyways i dont think its excessive

*Taxes
 -the clan tax is good, but i dont think its enough
    -i'd like to see on the first of each month 1-5% of gold taken as tax. that'd be gold in clans, on hand and in the bank
    -a low percent wouldnt do much, but it would make it not worth it to buy something then sell it to avoid the tax

*Sales Tax
 -how about making the deposits on the auction house not only norefundable if you remove an item, but just gone fo good. kinda the house's cut of the deal
    -since this is something eveybody uses it'd cover the whole base and be pretty fair since the more you use it the more you pay for the service



really it seems like gold is piling up faster than it can be spent.  the top levels have very little supply to buy so not much is being spent. at the lower levels the supply is far outstripping the demand. before long gold is just gonna be a bragging stat with everyone having more than they could possibly need.

[fingolfin]

I'm going to disagree on this one. Gold is a lot harder to come by in this version then the previous one so I don't think there will be an issue of it piling up. One of the biggest sinks of the previous version, jeweling, will become a much bigger factor as people lvl up. With mining at the mine still rendered pointless I dont see anyone piling up a ton of gold like Ohric was able to last version. With people changing their weapons constantly now if there is an abundance of gold, a lot of people will utilize the 5 mil skill reassignment so that they can more effectively use their new weapons.

[RUSSEL]

Horrible Idea.I Would Actually Love An Interest System Based On Your Bank Gold,Not The Opposite.Extra Slots Are Already Expensive Enough....

[Bear05]

i agree that it is harder to get gold, and that we do have more uses for it, im just not sure that its enough for any kind of long term stability.

has jeweling cost changed this version? if not how long until it is actually used on a regular basis?

and just because mining may be pointless doesnt mean it wont be used.

[Dagarxji]

Hmm... I do agree with Bear that something has to happen. Gold, though it may be harder to get in this version, will eventually pile up like it always does. Something has to be done, but I'm not sure what. Bear has taken the first step and proposed a few options, now we need to come to a concession on some options and refine them to work with our growing economy.

[fingolfin]

I mean pointless in the sense its not a great way to make gold. For those that actually played the last version pre wipe you would understand that there was not an abundance of gold in the game...this was  mainly due to jeweling. There was only one player, Ohric, who had an excessive amount of gold and it was mainly attained by like a solid week of mining in the mine. With clans, stat moving, skill reset, jeweling, and others i feel there are enough quality opportunities to spend gold.

[Dagarxji]

Well maybe then we should just see how this plays out.

[Bear05]

I mean pointless in the sense its not a great way to make gold. Last version there was not an abundance of gold or rares mainly due to jeweling. There was only one player, Ohric, who had an excessive amount of gold and it was mainly attained by like a solid week of mining in the mine. With clans, stat moving, skill reset, jeweling, and others i feel there are enough quality opportunities to spend gold.

there are and there arent


look at how much gold is on hand now. yes there has been little to no use of jewelling or stat transfer, but its been less than a week.  while im sure the pace will slow down some like it always does after the initial post wipe excitement i think it wont be enough.

and there were 2 main reasons i posted this
1. wanna play, cant and am bored
2. its easier to cut the problem off than try to fix it once it gets bad
   - i'd rather it seem too hard to get gold for your first few weeks-months than it be easy early and impossible to not have gold later

[Dagarxji]

Remember that in the future a gold wipe may need to happen along with a new bit of taxes and whatnot. So fixing it in the future wouldn't be terrible.

[fingolfin]

Well im looking at it from the point of view that last version gold piling up was not an issue, even with being able to high level mine for billions... They nerfed the mine, took out selling rares to the store for 1 mil and left everything else the same basically. If we get less gold this version and they took out 2 of the biggest ways to make gold, I dont see it becoming a problem.

[Bear05]

Remember that in the future a gold wipe may need to happen along with a new bit of taxes and whatnot. So fixing it in the future wouldn't be terrible.

yes, but if we have enough in place we could avoid things like a gold wipe. i tend to prefer the least drastic approach possible.

[Dagarxji]

Yea but like fing said, two of the more prominent ways of making money are out. So, I really think we just need to wait and see what will happen. We cannot be 100% sure that it will pile up.

[fingolfin]

Im just a little curious as to what you are basing your posts on Dag, did you play a lot last version? Did you feel there was a big problem with gold? Even if you felt it was too easy to get gold last version, they took out the 2 big money makers, I guess I just cant see why you feel its out of hand...

[Dagarxji]

Im just a little curious as to what you are basing your posts on Dag, did you play a lot last version? Did you feel there was a big problem with gold? Even if you felt it was too easy to get gold last version, they took out the 2 big money makers, I guess I just cant see why you feel its out of hand...

I refined my thoughts and have changed my opinion completely. Seeing how it will play out will give us more insight to changing it. If we make a wrong turn now it could be worse than our good intentions.

[Bear05]

Im just a little curious as to what you are basing your posts on Dag, did you play a lot last version? Did you feel there was a big problem with gold? Even if you felt it was too easy to get gold last version, they took out the 2 big money makers, I guess I just cant see why you feel its out of hand...

you werent talking to me, at least not directly but i have an answer.

its more along the lines of just because it wasnt out of hand last time ddoesnt mean it wont be now, and more things going on gives the game more depth.



ok so rares dont sell for 1mill to the shop.  most of the ones i get do go for close to 100k though.  look how many items each person tends to have.  if we emptied the auction house and sold them all to the shop would you disagree that there isnt too much gold then? yes thats not likely to happen, bu it is still possible for it to get out of shape this time around.

[fingolfin]

I just feel that if it wasn't out of hand last version, and we get less gold this version, I dont see it becoming a big issue.

[Bear05]

you may be right, or you may not.  i just dont see the harm in having some plans short of a gold wipe in case it is an issue.

suppose for some reson this version lasted a year or three without a wipe. do you really think the economy would hold up well that long?




***edit***
to be clear what do you consider a good economy and what is out of hand
-personally i think when someone has over 1 billion gold and no reason to spend more than a few 100k a week thats bad
-i think everyone with millions to 100s of millions but constantly making and spending could be ok, but pushing it

[fingolfin]

Personally I do think it would hold up just fine. But you're right, there's no harm at all in suggesting more sinks if one day gold does become an issue. My personal favorite that has been thrown around in the past is a casino.

[RUSSEL]

We Used To Have a Blackjack House.That Was Cool.

[Bear05]

Personally I do think it would hold up just fine. But you're right, there's no harm at all in suggesting more sinks if one day gold does become an issue. My personal favorite that has been thrown around in the past is a casino.

thats a good one.

on that note, i suggested a peanut gallery to watch pk tournies. id' really like to see an npc in there that you could make bets with on the results
-winner, show, place
-trifecta
-a spread





*edit
-ok under level 200 i was making over 300k an hour.  if that rate continues to go up i think the economy will bust. nobody is jewelling because it isnt worth it. its too easy to just find better gear, at least for now.  i agree its gonna have to be a wait and see with some more long term info, but i dont like the way it looks.