int bonuses on heal spells

[hoya999]

based on seeing the first 5 heal spells, i really think the bonuses for the heal spells should be higher. looks like the bonuses go up .02 per point of int each lvl,  meanin at heal 5, u get .1 hp for every int point u have added on to the base of the spell. that means for you to start getting a 1 hp bonus for every int (assuming the bonuses continue to increase .2 for each lvl of heal spell) you would have to reach heal 50, which u cant get to until holy 250. currently, with 150 total int, i can only heal 88 hp per cast of the spell. considering i have over 2000 total hp at lvl 50 and currently get hit for about 120-130 damage a hit against monsters lower than my lvl. getting healed for hp less than i get hit for isnt worth using the spell in battle. since the amount of hp we have and get hit for has been raised, i think the amount of hp we get healed for using a heal spell should get raised too, either by raising the base hp the spells heal or the bonuses each point of int gives, or raising both. it just seems fair that way that if the other things that happen to hp were raised, the healing amounts from spells should be higher too.

[RUSSEL]

I Entirely Agree.Especially Since Fighters That Use Magic And Wasted Points In INT Would Finally Get a Little Usefulness Out Of a It.Not a Huge Bonus,But Definitely More Than 0.01...

[Dlorak]

how Holy is designed makes sense.

First, the healing spells expect you to have a level-appropriate heal spell. Each heal spell is more MP efficient than the last. First ones are 2 to 1 (i think?), and it goes up to 10 to 1. This is true BEFORE INT even enter the picture. So you have to keep your holy-skill at pace with your level to be able to heal above the monsters you are fighting (so heal 10, not heal 5 for you, hoya).

Second, healing's INT bonuses are small, maybe we could increase them, but it would have to come at the cost of MP-efficiency... I landed on the current tweaking quite haphazzardly, adn the HP results quite intentionally.

If you a fighter with healing it is quiet gold-efficient, but takes a LOT of your MP. In-battle healing is ineffective because fighters rarely have enough INT to get big heals. Healing is hard work for fighters, it isn't natural.

If you are a mage (holy IS a magic skill, remember) you heal for significantly more HP per heal, reducing the number of heals required. This reduces your overall MP consumption on heals. You have more MP than a fighter anyways, so it is less significant. Healing is a natural fit for mages.

[fingolfin]

As a fighter healing in battle with a spell is not an option, even with holy equal to your lvl, the heal needs to heal 2x whatever the damge a mob does since casting it takes a turn.

[hoya999]

the bases arent that bad for the lvls, its the bonuses that really suck. like at heal 5 , u need 100 int just to heal 10 hp extra, and thats nothing when a full set of low lvl equipement only gets u to like 25-30 % damage reduction and so monsters hit for over 100 hp a hit. going by the trend, at heal 10, 100 int would only give 20 extra hp, and so not counting the hp base, uve only gained a 10 pt hp bonus for spending 25 skill points, and im sure monster damage scales a lot faster than that. anyway,  how can u keep heal spells at ur lvl if u only get 2 skill points a lvl? that means ur forced to put half ur skills into holy just to be able to barely heal more than ur hit for (assuming what u said is true about if i was using heal 10 at lvl 50 i would heal for more than i was being hit for). that means if u want to use more than one other spell element (and u need to use two to get a combination spell) ur forced to have the two spell skills ur attacking with to be half ur lvl because u only have 1 skill point left to use each lvl after putting a point in holy.  i really dont see how its worth it or fair the way things are.

[Alexis]

how Holy is designed makes sense.

First, the healing spells expect you to have a level-appropriate heal spell. Each heal spell is more MP efficient than the last. First ones are 2 to 1 (i think?), and it goes up to 10 to 1. This is true BEFORE INT even enter the picture. So you have to keep your holy-skill at pace with your level to be able to heal above the monsters you are fighting (so heal 10, not heal 5 for you, hoya).

My holy skill Level is equal to my level and I have the same problem. I lack INT which is understandable as a fighter.

Second, healing's INT bonuses are small, maybe we could increase them, but it would have to come at the cost of MP-efficiency... I landed on the current tweaking quite haphazzardly, adn the HP results quite intentionally.

How about just increasing the meditation rate for fighters instead so that it doesn't take so much time to meditate? It wouldn't mess with any formula's as far as how much fighters heal for.

[hoya999]

im a mage and cant heal for much alexis, so i can i can imagine how bad they'd be for fighters. but as it is, considering the really low int bonuses at low lvls, there probably isnt much difference in how much u heal for as a fighter. i still think the int bonuses are too low

[Alexis]

Eeck, I hadn't tried a mage when i posted last. Since then I have. I definitely heal for more which is due to the total INT being a lot higher. My heal as a mage seems good so far which may change as it gains level. Only time will tell. I seem to be liking the mage better because of the healing aspect.

[hoya999]

ok, after this skill reset from version 5.14, i now have heal spells that are equal to my lvl, but i still think the bonuses arent enough. since healing causes a 6 second delay, and ur essentially giving up a turn to attack with, u need a heal spell to do at least 2x the healing as ur getting hit for each turn (preferably more than that).  if you are healing for just barely more than ur getting hit for, u never have the chance to attack back, because ur spending every turn negating out the damage from the previous one. right now i have lvl 55 holy at lvl 55, (heal 11) and with my 299 int i can heal for 227 hp a turn using heal 11. monsters at lvl 55 hit me for like 140 each turn with my current armor, so only healing about 80 more than a single hit for isnt worth using the spell in the battle, since i'll get hit 2 times after i use the spell because of the 6 second recovery time, and in battle is when i need to heal. also, as a related note, because i have one point going to holy for each lvl up, that only leaves 1 pt left for offensive magic, and so my offensive lvl suffers. im currently fighting monsters 15 or more lvls below mine just because the combination of terrible healing and reduced damage wont let me fight at my own lvl. even at lvl 40 the monsters do like 100 damage to me. Since a heal spell has a 6 second recovery rate (twice the wait time of a monster), the monsters attack me twice after i heal once, so the monsters do 300 damage by the time i get to attack if i heal for one turn (including the damage from the turn before i healed), and since i only heal for 220 at a time, healing spells are useless against these monsters too. i dont want to waste the points to find out, but my guess is that a lvl 55 shadow / lvl 11 vamp bite will probably heal me more than the heal spell does, and it at least attacks while it heals. a spell that only heals should be healing for a lot more than a spell that heals and attacks at the same time.  there are several ideas i came up with to help with the problems ive mentioned, any one of them would help, and i dont expect them all to be used:

raise the base heal of the heal spells

raise the + hp/int bonuses of the spells

raise the amount of skill points you gain each lvl from 2 to 3 (that 1 pt would be a huge help, what good are combo spells if they have to be half ur lvl to use them)

reduce the wait time after using the heal spell (6 second recovery time when u barely recovered any hp is a long time when the monsters usually attack every 3 seconds )

if ur not going to raise the amount u heal for, at least add some attack damage to the spells like some heal spells had in older versions, like how on the old spell system and hp system, the monster was hit for a compounding 20 damage a turn for each time that spell was used. (that number would have to be higher now since hp is much higher now).

i dont care if the mp costs for the heal spells have to rise some for the hp amount to rise, mages normally have a lot of mp anyway, so thats not going to be much of a problem, and as it is, ur spending more mp to heal and multiple turns to do it, so ur wasting more mp and attack turns than if u spent a little more mp the one time in one turn for a decent amount of hp.  Please raise how much hp the heal spells heal for in some way.

edit: i recently spent almost all my money on equipment upgrades that increased my total int and damage reduction, so i changed the numbers based on my new stats. i also added in the thing about the recovery time since i noticed in battle while playing i get attacked twice directly after using the heal spell, effectively making the heal spell pointless since i lost more hp than i gained by the time i get to attack again.

[Dlorak]

heal spells get more efficient as you get deeper into the holy tree. The early heal spells aren't battle-ready. You can't outheal your opponents damage because the early heal spells are too weak. This is by design.

[hoya999]

well i still think we need more skill points per lvl, 2 just isnt enough. with all the possible skills there are, and the fact that as a mage u are most likely wanting to use more than 2 spell types, and just doing the 2 uses up all ur skill pts. what good are combo spells if in order to have heal spells and 2 other elements for a combo, the combo elements have to be half ur lvl? 

 while im on the subject, since im too lazy to make a new topic about it, why does defribilator come from two spells that ignore 100% armor (water and lightning both say they ignore 100% armor) but defribilator itself doesn't ignore armor? if both the spells that make it ignore armor, shouldnt the combined spell ignore armor too?

[Lyrael]

You obviously haven't tried to use a defribulator on somebody wearing body armour.

All joking aside though, hybrid spell deserve their own thread anyhow so maybe you should bring that up elsewhere.

I'm not qualified to comment on healing as I've always found potions to be a faster option (plus I level on hybrid spells so I've never had points free for heals).

*Jonny Monroe posting, helen's got auto-signed in here.

[Mighty_Mite]

I am healing with Holy and am leveling it along side Fire, at this point I have heal 44
just over 2200 healing, easily used in battle and very helpful.

[hoya999]

yeah, but heal 44 is at lvl 220, lol. sure thats helpful when ur over lvl 200 , but what about the first 150 or so lvls before it starts getting helpful?