Upgrading Items

[Pops]

Here is my twist on an old idea. This will also give mining more of a purpose. First we put a mine in each land, each mine
will have a different type of ore which you will take to an npc and have him combine to make a jewel.

Example
2x llirem ore + x amount of gold (with a percentage of success)= Jewel of Llirem
adding more ore and items will increase chance of success, the higher the items level added the higher the success rate
this goes for ore from each land as well

Upgrading:
Jewel of Llirem increases item +1 from +0 to +2
Jewel of Rothar increases item +1 from +2 to +4
Jewel of Velgrad increases item +1 from +4 to +6
Jewel of Noslin increases item +1 from +6 to +8
Jewel of Thorold increases item +1 from +8 to +10

Supers will be the only items to be increased more than +10, with the help of an npc and maybe with some quest items
Each upgrade will increase an items attack/def and mods say 10% or so.

Adding Mods
While you are mining you may come accross slightly rarer ore which you will be able to combine with jewels to create
Dex, Str, Hp, Mp, Int mods each combination will randomly generate one of these jewels. Also you can only equip one mod
per weapon, maybe more for a super im not sure, this does not include the mods the item already has. So yes you can have
Zerks then equip an Hp jewel to it, so it will have the +400 Str mod and a shiny new Hp mod.

As for mages im not really sure if skill affects the power of spells, if so we can also include Fire, Lighting, Earth, Water, Shadow,
Holy ore into this to mix with jewels to increase skills

Note: Each combination has a chance of failure and if that happens you lose jewels, ore, items that you were trying to combine
        Also there will have to be a +mod % cap not sure what to set it at though.
        Maybe mixing different types of ore will create different special types of jewel, anyone have ideas
        And you will not get a piece of ore every time you click dig in the mine, but the higher your mining lvl the more ore you will find.

[Jericho]

Maybe also have a rare scroll or something that prevents loss of the item in the event of a failure...

IE. You use a jewel and a scroll on a HoT... you fail, you lose the scroll and jewel, but keep the HoT.

Of course these scrolls would have to be super rare.

[Jon_Deciple]

ya, this general idea has been suggested a few places... basically follows the lineage style of boosting items.

I like it, think its a good idea, but dont have a limit. If people want to bring their HoT to +10000 then by all means, give it a try. The chances of getting it that high are minimal, and in the long run it means the item will be removed from the game. Theres no real limits on anything else in quest, which is part of what makes it interesting (and a pain in the ass to equalize char types) but thats part of why i like playing... i like being able to grind to be 3x the lvl of most of the population... it makes things interesting

[Pops]

I like that idea Jericho maybe have the scrolls only drop in Noslin and Thorold ,let them have the same drop rate as lvl 8s cause who want to go 100k fights and then find a scroll that would suck lol. Then the only way you can upgrade a super is Jewel + Scroll.
and i didnt mean for the weapon to be destroyed when you are trying to upgrade it i was thinking that if you failed while trying to upgrade it it would randomly drop down a few lvls

IE.  Jewel of Thorold + Scroll + HoT(+8) + gold (chance of success 90%)

item combination fails the HoT will randomly drop from +8 to anything below +8
add more jewels or scroll to increase success rate

IE.  2x ore + rare fenrir claw + gold (chance of success 80%)= Jewel combination fails you lose everything
                                                                                     Jewel combination success you lose ore items and gold but get Jewel
items will be destroyed when you are using them to create jewels not when you are upgradin items
this would be a nice gold/item sink too i guess

[Jon_Deciple]

perhaps a chance it will have a stat drop after whatever level, but definately we need a chance the item will completely and utterly be destroyed. We need to have a way to reduce the number of items in game.

[Dlorak]

I like this direction.

Complete destruction of the item would be the cost of failure. Keepin' it simple.

I like the stat specific jewels you mentioned. Easy to implement from my perspective, all it takes is adding a new item type: jewels.

About getting the jewels: I think it is right to base it on your mining skill. Higher mining skill, higher chance to get big-statted jewels. Not all jewels should be created equal. Any thoughts on this?

chance of success: how bout 90%? 1/10 chance trying to add the jewel breaks the item. Now here we have a risk/reward ratio that needs some tweaking: is +20str worth the risk? is +40str worth it? or would it take + 100str to be worth a 90% chance of busting a HoT? I think we'll have to experiment...

A deminishing chance of success for more jewels/item is kinda tricky to implement right away. Maybe later after we've got something that works to begin with. Same with the naming of "+1" "+2" etc...

Scrolls... Again lets see if we can get something working first. Maybe a blacksmithing skill could be raised to the point of getting better than 90% success. Ideas Ideas 

I'm thinking this service will be offered in the armory. Perhaps at the witch? Perhaps a new blacksmith? Lets start at the armory and see how it evolves. Kinda like repair/sell: drag and drop an item to the 'upgrade box', drag and drop a jewel into the 'jewel box', see the cost, see the blacksmith's estimate of success, and you decide yes/no. ---> Success or Fail. Fail you lose the item, Success you get your shiney new upgraded weapon.

[Pops]

Ok so we are looking at only adding jewels that add mods right now, which would be Str, Dex, Def, Int, Hp, Mp.
So 6 stats jewels increase stats +20 to +100, thats 5 jewels per stat. So 1 jewel every 100 mining lvls, which would put
us at mining lvl 500 for strongest jewel, dont know if that is acceptable since i've only known 1 player to get that high (Freeedr),
but anyways we'll go with it for now.
Drop Rate:
Stage 1 Jewel= (+20mod), 1/150
Stage 2 Jewel= (+40mod), 1/200, + you still have the chance to find Stage 1 Jewel
Etc...

and would drop rates be based on actual mouse clicks, if so maybe we could equip the mining controls to hotkeys.

as for the actual upgrading took me 3 or 4 yrs to actually find a super and im not gonna risk it for +100str even if i have
a 90% chance of success, now any other rares i could care less but that is just my opinion. but i guess we should test numbers
before any positive or negative feedback can be written on this part

[Jon_Deciple]

no need for diminishing chances of success... law of statistics means the item will eventually break given too many boosts.

Try this:
Find a random number generator
Set the limits from 1 to 10
get a random number. supposing success rate is 90%, anything but a 1 means it worked. make a note of that (+50 ish)
repeat untill you get a 1.
Note how many +'s you have.

Now suppose someone did this to a lvl 9 item. How boosted would it get? Do we want lvl 8's to have a chance of getting stronger than supers (i say yes!)

Higher power stones could have a higher fail rate. I say from 95% to 85% success rates. (granted this is before calculating probability)

For you keener types theres a mathematical formula for this garbage... i knew i learned it ages ago, cant remember it for the life of me. Soon as i remember you can bet im gonna make an excell spreadsheet.

[Dlorak]

We're dealing with a binomial distribution... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution (The expected value and variance are all we care about)

[Dlorak]

Building on what is already here...

How bout instead of just making your weapon vapour, you get a jewel with 100% success rate and some small fraction of the stats the vaped weapon had (say, 2-5%)?

While we're at it: offer a mildly priced service to turn rares into said jewels...

* Dlorak is falling in love with a "jewel"s system.

[Pops]

That'll work, and you can always tweak it later
and yay i finally had a good idea lol 

[Jon_Deciple]

keep in mind:

There is an excess of items in the game.

There is a constant flow of new items into the game

There is no way for items to be removed from the game.



That being said, supply will constantly increase, and demand will most definately constantly decrease.

I like this direction.

Complete destruction of the item would be the cost of failure. Keepin' it simple.

Im not clear what you mean by jewel system... Do you mean like charms mentioned way back when (give % mods to stats) or something totally different? http://www.questrpg.org/forum/index.php?topic=1523.0


What happens in lineage is when an item breaks you get a set number of crystals for the grade of the item, and those crystals along with lots of other mats can be used to craft other items. Thing is it takes a lot more crystals to make the item than you get back.

Perhaps if you want to go with the charm idea have each item broken give a number of crystals equal to like half the total stats combined. Then to make charms have it take like, 50k crystals. Especially if you go with % mods it should take a bit of work to create the charms.


And if you were talking about something totally different... complete item destruction is the way to go, IMO, as there is constantly more supply than there is demand.

[Pops]

Jon he is saying that you are going to be able to create the jewels with gold+items so you will be destroying items and gold to get a jewel, and higher lvl jewels woul probably require higher lvl items and more gold. And this probably just stage one, to see how everything
works and if players like it. So ore, scrolls, crystals or charms will probably be implemented in a later update, once we get this set up.

Question 1: will there be stat specific jewels right now, if yes will they be random, or will those come later on.
Question 2: say if you put a item that has been modded 5x already into the jewel maker, would you get an even higher lvl jewel?
Question 3: will there be a chance for the jewel making process to fail so that you lose your item and gold

[Jon_Deciple]

hmmm

perhaps the jewels collected are all lvl one, and to get jewels to higher lvls you need to combine two of them and enchant em the same as weapons! and if THOSE fail they disapear!

that would be like, awesome because it would totally promote crystalizing items for a chance of making an uber jewel! And there would be that chance the jewels get powderized so its awesome!

i like it

[Pops]

That seems really complicated

* Pops kicks you outta the suggestions forum 

[Jon_Deciple]

what?

enchant item

it breaks

get crystals

enchant crystals

if they break then poof, its gone


whats soo complicated?

[Pops]

Not sure if you need these but here are a few jewel pictures i had

[MysticRat]

keep in mind:

There is an excess of items in the game.

There is a constant flow of new items into the game

There is no way for items to be removed from the game.

You equip your weaps.
You do something stupid (Not that hard)
I (perm)ban you/delete char+clans
Items *poof*

Your statement fails.
Have a nice day

[Jon_Deciple]

how many items have been removed since the wipe due to bans?

how many items have been found and are still in game?

thats what i thought.

[Jouser]

I think the rare and drop rates are still too generous!  We're starting to overflow with the odds on finding a rare.  To solve this I say we pick a day of the week and if day = Sunday then chance of rare 1 in a million. Else if day of week not sunday then no rare at all.
....Okay a little sarcasm...