Dex in PK

[Jon_Deciple]

you mean, getting hit with a car @ 50 kmph or a feather @ 100 kmph....

Dex is faster, str is heavier.

[JackHammer]

That's an even better analogy =D

[Gungrave]

whoa ease up with the in depth technicalitys!

keep it old school rpg stats I think, sure DEX chars fail miserably in PVP dueling, PK they do just fine..honestly, get to a high level and you have enough MP to meditate/heal anyway, so HP fails at pk, its only ever awesome in duels in excessive amounts

still, since mages can now PK, DEX based chars do seem a little left out in duels

2 first hits in a duel seems pretty fair to me,after that no further free hits, since DEX based chars dominate tremendously at higher levels againts monsters

first 3 hits on a monster with 6k damage or more? yes please

[Sora]

well basically this whole thing reminded me of physics class, the best way to view this is my using a physics formula and a simple one at that:

F=M x A  (Force = Mass x Acceleration) (mass representing STR and acceleration representing DEX)

Now lets say you are a pure STR build with starting dex (will say 5 for this example rounding the numbers out)
EX 1: You have a rock weighting 7000 grams, and it is moving at 5 m/s²
       ( LvL 1000, 7000 total STR, with 5 DEX formula is so - F=7000x5 )
     
So for this the force would equal = 35,000

EX 2: You have a rock weighting 5200 grams, and it is moving at 3000 m/s²
        ( LvL 1000, 5200 total STR, with 3000 DEX formula is also - F=5200x3000 )

So for this the force would equal = 15600000 (and yes that is accurate and it does have that many zero's)

Now formula's like this would break the game for sure, but this is mainly to show how much speed/acc, factor into the final amount of force that is produced.  So maybe this will open the eyes of people saying how speed isn't as important as STR/mass in a blow or a hit.

Edit:  Just like to add to this lil fact, it is 1 AM i am under the influence of large quantities of caffeine, and this is me getting "White and Nerdy."

[FangReils]

Or.. just make it so DEX just adds a small amount to your total damage. Say.. 100 DEX, 5% of that added to how much damage you deal or whatever.

[_Ares_]

well back where aces was saying on the first page with the str making u stronger int making u smarter to make u use better stronger spells. and dex only making u faster. well like in baseball it doesnt matter how hard u hit the ball its bat speed that determins how far u hit the ball in most cases but how strong u are does matter aswell.

[shadowfox]

well..got bored on quest while people were talking about adding dex to PvP/Pk.
So i tried to make up a formula based on _Ares_ current stats at his lvl.

Now remember this formula is BASED around _ARES_ so don't complain.

Lvl : 1319
Dex : 3959
Total str : 5979
Power (weapon) : 3300 +550 (str. mod)

after I made a few calculations it would show that ares would hit around 406~407
so here goes -_-;

Total str - Power (weapon) = 2129
Dex - 2129 = 1830

1830 would be around 610 damage each hit for full hp. Of course hitting someone with 95def.

SO

610 / 1.5 = 406 ~ 407
which would sound about right for someone his lvl.

Since at my current lvl I hit 269, but since my build is all messed up .. nvm that..

probably doesn't make sense since I made it up in like 1 or 2 minutes -_-;

[Hitme]

whoa, 407 damage? that is way way to high at his level.

[Jon_Deciple]

well basically this whole thing reminded me of physics class, the best way to view this is my using a physics formula and a simple one at that:

F=M x A  (Force = Mass x Acceleration) (mass representing STR and acceleration representing DEX)

Now lets say you are a pure STR build with starting dex (will say 5 for this example rounding the numbers out)
EX 1: You have a rock weighting 7000 grams, and it is moving at 5 m/s²
       ( LvL 1000, 7000 total STR, with 5 DEX formula is so - F=7000x5 )
     
So for this the force would equal = 35,000

EX 2: You have a rock weighting 5200 grams, and it is moving at 3000 m/s²
        ( LvL 1000, 5200 total STR, with 3000 DEX formula is also - F=5200x3000 )

So for this the force would equal = 15600000 (and yes that is accurate and it does have that many zero's)

Now formula's like this would break the game for sure, but this is mainly to show how much speed/acc, factor into the final amount of force that is produced.  So maybe this will open the eyes of people saying how speed isn't as important as STR/mass in a blow or a hit.

Edit:  Just like to add to this lil fact, it is 1 AM i am under the influence of large quantities of caffeine, and this is me getting "White and Nerdy."

ya bt which has more force... a bullet at 5000 miles per hour, or a semi going at 2 miles per hour?
which ones more likely to kill you?
which would you rather be hit with?

I think basing this totally on physics may be flawed.

But i do think its a good idea. I cant remember who said it, but dex should determine the attack speed. Lets assume each attack in PVP is one second apart. Each dex could take off one millisecond of that time. Once it gets to 0, it would slow the last person you hit for their next attack.

Assume you have 0 dex, each attack would be 1 second apart, 500 dex would be half a second apart. 750 dex would be a quarter second apart. 1000 dex would be 0 seconds apart.

Now personally, unless Jouser does some crazy upgrades, i dont think thats not going to work. maybe set a min attack time, say 250 ms.

So if you have 1000 dex, your attack speed will be 250 ms, and will slow your opponent by 250 ms for their next attack. if you have 1500 dex, your attack speed will be 250 ms, and your opponent's attack will be slowed by 750 ms.

This way, if you have crazy speed, you will hit your opponent much faster than they will hit you. Your damage will still be based on STR, and dex doesnt effect the damage you do, but the speed at which its delivered.



Hows that for a solution?

[_Ares_]

sounds good to me but what iff both have say 1500 dex or more.  say my 4000 dex to another dexes 1600 dex

and yea thats just a little to high but hitme its not that off b/c if i did 3 str per lvl with my HoN/PoN i would be hitting 401-402 at lvl 1319 and now that im at 4k dex and not adding any more it would only go up as much as my str would go up so i think with SF's formula motified slightly or jons motified slightly if needed, either one would work.

[Jon_Deciple]

Ok if the first person has 1500 dex, they hit once every 250 ms and slow the opponent by 750 ms, right? well supposing your opponent also has 1500 dex... their attack speed gets increased by 1500 ms. their attack speed is 250 ms.

Both players counter each other's effects.. They both attack at 250 ms.


lets get a few more examples...
supposing both players hit their first hit at the same time.

player 1 - 1000 dex, player 2 - 500 dex
Player 1 hits at a speed of 250 ms, player 2 slowed to 1250 ms, Player 2 hits with a speed of 750 ms (1250 - 500)

Player 1 is not slowed by player 2's attack, and attacks at 250 ms, player 2's attack slows to 2000, 250 ms has passed

player 1 attacks again, player 2's attack slows to 2250, 500 ms has passed

player 1 attacks again, player 2's attack slows to 2500, 750 ms has passed
player 2 attacks, speed goes to 2000 ms.

player 2 would need to wait 2 seconds to attack again. In that 2 seconds, player 1 would be able to attack 8 times. Player 2's next attack would be increadibally decreased. Not even going to do the math on that one...

I realize through the other player's attack can get. In this case, player 1 could keep attacking and eventually player 2 would hardly ever get a chance to attack.

so theres two options i see.... keep with the rest of the game and make it so that if your opponent slows you more than you can make up for it, your attacks keep getting slower and slower, or have there be a cap, so your attack speed goes to a maximun and cant go further, say 2000 ms (two seconds)

it took me a while to figure this out because you have to consider both players attacking, as well as passing time. Thinking in 3d. Woot... :/





 - Edit -

Ok talking with people online, thats way too much... Its an idea, but not a good one.
Suppose, however, that you multiply the dex by two, and each dex speeds the attack by .1 ms...

or in other words...

atack speed = 1 - (dex * .00002) seconds

So 500 dex would make you attack every .9 seconds, as opposed to every 1 seconds. 1000 dex would get you attacking once every .8 seconds. 4000 dex would attack every .2 seconds. And thats ares. And hes extreme. And i would suggest cap it at that, so you cant attack any faster than once every .2 seconds.

[SirJ00]

no, Mages have every right to PK, there damage is based off there int, so should factor int when they hit other people, Dex chars damage is based off of str, so it should factor in str

    Little slow on a comment here O.o but they are hitting people with a wand... not with magic heh.... now if Jouser made graphics a lil better and made an actual magic spell that would sonsume mana as they shot it at others in pk... THEN mages could pk.