New version mage stuff - maybe not this version, but the next?

[AcesJaes]

With Ares' Calculations on INT > STR
2/3 MPmod plus INT times % lost by opponent's DEF

Makes things fairly equal.

There are only two things I see wrong with mage PK now that Jou Jou has a different equation to look at:

1. Low HP that comes with mages.  If you can't survive two hits, how do you expect to fight?
2. Rare Weapons.

Five super rares gears towards melee, one towards mages.  That makes your chance of getting a melee super five times more than a mage does. 

Not just supers either, rares are much less as well.  There are two decent level eight wands and eight decent level eight melee weapons. (Thinking of "Decent" as 1500 MP bonus or higher, or for melee, 950+ number.)  Below that, there are even less rares geared to mages than melee.


Another thing, for Players vs. Monsters.

Durability - This would seriously discourage use of quick spells, such as Sand Storm, since they are designed to be used more often and do less damage as a result.

[Hitme]

well you dont have high hp because you guys never were made to pk, now that you have that oppurtunity youll have more hp.

[AcesJaes]

Well, how would we train if we do nothing but HP and INT? I mean, no first hit, so we take massive beginning damage, and less hits at the beginning means we need to heal more, sapping our MP

[Hitme]

int is like fighters str as of now, do like a fighter, 3int 1hp 1dex, or 3int 1.25hp .75dex<-------my bad or 2hp 2int 1dex<-----didnt mean 2

[SirJ00]

3int.... 2hp.... .75 dex....   5.75

2hp 2int 2dex....  6

                                           Wow.... i wish i had that many stat points >.> dang mages are rigged

[AcesJaes]

Still doesn't fix the wand problem.  Even if we start building like a warrior, we might as well just make a warrior, since they have about five decent weapons to our one.

[hoya999]

aces, do u realize that as it is now, a high lvl mage with enough int can do as much damage with one spell and no weapon as a high lvl fighter with a noslin super rare, and in other cases even more damage? not in pvp of course, but in battles against monsters it holds true.
its kind of an overkill example, but look at MR's mage character (not sure which one it is right now), he can 1 hit just about any monster in the game (legal mosters, im not counting ones in the off limits lliruss) using apoc once.

for a more literal example, to 1 hit a 10k hp monster for example, you would have to do 10000 damage in the one hit, meaning if ur a fighter with a 2x crit, you'd need a tot str of 5000.  even if u had a Hammer of Noslin (3850 tot str)and a berserker cloth (400 str) you would still need to get 750 str (from your stats) just to reach the total of 5000 tot str.  Sure, u could berserk (3x crit) to 1 hit the 10k at only 3334 tot str, but the cost of half ur hp to use berserk doesnt really seem worth it. Thats just to be able to 1 hit a 10k hp monster, which u wont find in noslin or velgrad, but some mages have enough int to easily 1 hit 10k hp+ monsters (even over 20k hp in some cases) with a spell (usually apoc) and they dont even need to find any super rares to do it. sure mages start out slow and can be hard to lvl in the beginning,  but in this game (as is) mages are actually stronger than fighters at high lvls, they just have to use spells to do it instead of strength like the fighters do.

it is because of this difference in attack power at higher lvls that i dont really mind that there is really only one type of super for mages on each map compared to the 5 the fighters have available.

Im sure that difference in attack power is probably getting worked on for future versions, but the way things are now i dont see a need to complain about not having enough supers available for mages when if ur a pure mage u dont really even need a super (although the super armors with their good mp and hp mods would help)

[JackHammer]

I agree with bear that mages shouldn't have a lot of HP, but I would like to propose something more interesting: MP damage. I mean...With the equipment gear toward mages right now... I'm sure that most mages have massive amounts of MP, so being able to redirect your damage to your MP would be a sort of god-send.

As for the problem with Supers, sure, there are 5 melee types, but if I'm a Crush warrior and I find a Slash super...that's kinda worthless to the char that I have, wouldn't you say? The only supers that are compatible with all warriors are the throw and bowshot types, and even if I were to find one of those, I'd have a few problems: 1) I would not be able to do as much damage as I would with a melee weapon of my type, and 2)I wouldn't get critical hits, which would even make the new super less useful. I'd either have to go out of my way to train the new weapon type, or reset my character/make a new character. That seems a bit tedious, no? I mean it's not really as much of a problem, but it's still a disadvantage for someone that, for example, finds that super at lvl 500+ after lvl'ng that char with lvl 8 rares.

That's not to say that I wouldn't like new supers for mages, like a Staff of [land], or even a Book of [land].

Now..as for the the mage's damage, It's true that they can 1 hit monsters better then warriors can, but that's because of the spell's damge, which could come close to the warrior's berzerk attack. If we take their INT and divide that by 20, then I'm sure it'd be somewhat like a warrior doing PK damage, since our PK damage is not the same as our Monster Battle Damage.

[AcesJaes]

Jack: The thing is, weapon skill does nothing in PK, which is what I was talking about there.
Hoya: Same thing. Talking about PK here.

[JackHammer]

Actually, I think I was arguing Hoya's point

[hoya999]

how are you talking about pk here when as far as i can see except for the beginning of ur first post u keep saying there arent enough mage weapons? and of course mages have lower hp, thats true in any rpg you ever see that has a mage, the mage character always has the lowest hp. and even u do talk about pks not counting weapon skill , meaning no criticals, then there is even a greater difference between what a high lvl mage can currently do with one apoc spell compared to a fighter swinging his super weapon once. even if you do the 95% reduction in damage thing (max def against the attack cancelling 95% of the damage) for both str and int, 5% of a spell than can do 10000 damage is still 500 damage, and no fighter around can do that kind of damage in pk, and im sure there are mages who's spells can do more than 10k damage.  If anything the low hp is one factor that tries to balance out that fact (sure they can hit hard, but if u get in a few good hits u could knock 'em out).  not to mention the fact that as a fighter loses hp, they can only do a smaller percentage of their tot str as damage, so there damage always decreases as the fight goes on, but a mage can do the same damage whether they have full hp or 1hp.  Its things like that that would really have to get balanced out before mages could pk using their spells.

[_Ares_]

In the new version mages and warriors are pretty much equal in Pk considering some things. And as far as the HP, you can build your character any way u want to. So if u have low HP thats just b/c how you decided to build your character not b/c ur a mage and cant have high hp. There plenty of mages with high HP. It just all has to do with how you decide to build your character.

[White_Knight]

yes Ares is right, some mages have low hp like mine while others have very high hp.  Mine is based on 3int 2dex so i can get the 2 first hits....now if someone wanted to make a pk mage, they could simply add 72%dex for first hit and the rest into hp and have a perfectly good pk char.  I believe the new equation is perfect and now creates a new category of characters...the pk mage.

[AcesJaes]

Well, I AM talking about mage PK. Take another look, I made it a little clearer.
The thing is, those things are what is wrong with make PKing.  The thing is, we don't have enough weapons to effectively PK, or fight for that matter.

[_Ares_]

the way it is now u can use wands or weapons to pk

[AcesJaes]

Yeah, but how hard is it to get a wand vs. getting any other type of weapon?  I really think the wands are an improvement, but there's still just a little bit of disadvantage.

[Dlorak]

Yeah, there is a definite item disadvantage... much reduced availabilty... The market prices on the top wands must be quite high.
For now, thems the breaks.
For later, I guess we'll have to increase the chance of getting a mage weapon.
Right now it breaks down like this:

Blade, Bow, Dagger, Hammer, Javlin (5) (71%)
Protector (1) (14%)
Wand (1) (14%)

giving a 1/7 chance to get a wand when you find a super, and 5/7 chance to get a warrior wepon when the same event occurs.
We can change it to be:
5 (50%)
2 (20%) (the market could use an increase of Po*'s...  2/10 (20%) is slightly better chance than 1/7 (14%))
3 (30%)

We can tweak it more precisely... but this should ease the burden on mages.

[Liger]

*salutes Dlorak* as a former mage that made my pants happy to see that the possibility of wands dropping more often, and protectors also. And AcesJaes, when you get higher level as a mage, your hp seems to be useless... My mage, naked, has 600-700 hp, I forget, but even naked he doesn't need it all. In pvp, when you're pvping vs say kyok mr and draco, they'll all hit you for around 300 yea? and you're gonna be hitting back for the 200s (at higher levels) BUT how much can they heal o_O... I know my mage has a lot more mp than any warrior around his level, just because I stopped increasing hp for mp at 500ish, meaning a mage typically shouldn't have to meditate as much as a warrior in pvp, especially if you do have a wand (which if the mp mod is added into the damage for pvp is going to make mages hit quite hard) and a protector. So it is fair, as far as stats go...

On the other hand, do mages, like in normal combat, not lose damage as their hp goes down? Personally I think that would make it a bit more fair for the % of hp lost per hit mages will lose compared to fighters, who have the option of 3 hp 2 str, and are still able to train vs mobs (2 int mages are t3h suck[unless they have dex+sandstorm]). Just an idea!